Beyond Family Ties: The Impact of Friendships on our Well-Being

Wendy Green [: 00:00:34

Hello, and welcome to Heyboomer. My name is Wendy Green, and I am your host for Heyboomer. And at Hey Boomer, we are changing the conversation about getting older. Rather than seeing it as declining, we see it as the opening of a potentially exciting new and vibrant chapter, a time for exploration, self expression, and learning. Today we're going to be talking all about friendships, but before we dive in, I wanted to ask you, Are you ready to embark on an incredible journey with us by becoming a Boomer believer? As a boomer believer, you have access to a every month, we're gonna speak to one of our amazing podcast guests on Zoom, so you'll get to have a conversation with them. Every month, you will also be invited to the Boomer Banter where we are building a community of friends. We have really interesting discussions right now. We're going through the the 5, What is it? The Four Agreements, which has really been an interesting conversation.

Wendy Green [: 00:01:45

You will also get The designer, Hey Boomer, baseball cap. It's a limited edition, and there's even more. So go ahead and mark your calendars for the inaugural boomer believe, boom boomer labor, which will start tomorrow. Actually, the kickoff is tomorrow We will be talking with Dean King, the author of The Feud, The True Story of the Hatfields and McCoys. It's going to start at 6:30 on Tuesday night, January 30th, 6:30 EST, And you can sign up to become a boomer believer by going to buymeacoffee.com slash Heyboomer 0413. I'm going to put that in the show notes. And I encourage you to do that now because, like I said, the inaugural meeting is tomorrow. So before we jump in to this friendship talk, I wanna be completely transparent with you.

Wendy Green [: 00:02:57

As the host of a boomer, I know that when it comes to coaching and podcasting, I'm really good. I thrive on that. I love it. I love those roles. But you know what? I'm also a work in progress when it comes to some other things like friendship. I rate myself as an okay friend. I've reconnected with high school buddies on Facebook. We don't chat on the phone.

Wendy Green [: 00:03:27

You know? They're really Facebook friends, which is great. It's fun to see them. I've also had friends in various places along my lifespan when I've lived in different cities, and some of them have stayed friends, but most of them have kind of faded away once I moved away from that city, and I'm the kind of friend That's not a great phone friend. I I just find so many other things to do than sit and talk on the phone, so I try to make lunch dates with my girlfriends or dinner dates with them so that we can have some some face to face time Then I don't have to sit on the phone too long. But here's the beauty of it. I've got 1 or 2 friends that really get me, understand that I'm not the best on the phone. But even if it takes me several weeks, even a month, before I will reach out to contact them again? They get it. They love me anyway.

Wendy Green [: 00:04:31

We pick up right where we left off. And let's be real, okay, we do all have Person in our life or we've had that person in our life, we start to feel like it's a full time job to be their friend. They need us so much. They're energy drainers. They leave us feeling depleted. They rarely fill us up. It's tough. But sometimes, we've gotta make that decision to let them go for our own sanity.

Wendy Green [: 00:05:06

And we know that is not easy. If I know I'm not alone on this journey of friendship, and we're all figuring out this friendship dance and navigating the ebb and flow of connections. So let's dive in it together, share our stories, learn from Margie, and maybe pick up a few tips along the way. I found Margie Zabel Fisher, who is our guest today, through an article she wrote for Next Avenue, which is an online magazine. The article is titled, How to Prevent Being Estranged from a Friend. Margie said in her article, family estrangement is upsetting, but friend estrangement can be just as or even more distressing than family estrangement, especially as we get older. In fact, a study by Michigan State University showed that friendships have a much bigger influence on our physical and emotional state as we age, then our family relationships. We're gonna Dig into that.

Wendy Green [: 00:06:17

So we all know friendship is important. Let's meet Margie and start this conversation. Hey, Margie. Hey, Wendy. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad you agreed to join us. I wanna do a brief bio of you so people know a little bit about you. Great.

Wendy Green [: 00:06:35

Okay. So Margie Zabel Fisher is a writer and an advocate for positive aging. She writes for AARP Magazine, Fortune Well, and Next Avenue as well as for businesses and organizations. She is the coauthor of a novel with her mother. It's a coming of age story about a new retiree She wants to finally live the life of her dreams. Sounds great. She is currently submitting it to agents, So hopefully that will be out soon and we can all enjoy that. Margie also created the 50 year old mermaid community to connect with women over 50 who want to live their best lives and we will share the link to that at the end of the show.

Wendy Green [: 00:07:24

And after age 50, Margie started competing in triathlons and playing pickleball. She lives with her husband in Florida and looks forward to visits from her college age daughter. She enjoys word games, books, and Thriller series. You are into everything.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:07:46

Quite a bit, yes.

Wendy Green [: 00:07:49

Oh, I can't wait till that book comes out. Me either. Yeah. So give me a little, Insight into why you chose the topic friends and friend estrangement when you decided to write this article.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:08:06

Yes. So in a perfect world with my writing, every piece of writing I do would meet 3 criteria. So first and most important to me is that it helps people. 2nd would be something that I'm interested in. And 3rd would be something that I want to learn more about so that I can, in essence, get paid to learn. Right?

Wendy Green [: 00:08:30

Cosec?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:08:31

So, yeah. Luckily, this article on friend estrangement was actually a good example of a piece of writing that met that criteria. So, obviously, it's it's a topic, especially with my midlife friends, that women especially are really interested in. So I knew these things had come up about friendship, you know, toxic friendships, issues with friendships, whatever. It was always coming up in conversations, so I knew it would be something that helped people. And personally, it's something that interested me because I'm interested in friendships myself, and I wanted to learn more about friendship estrangement because, Selfishly, there was a long time friend there is a long time friend, I should say Mhmm. Who, I wasn't sure I wanted to stay friends with.

Wendy Green [: 00:09:27

Yeah.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:09:28

And I wasn't sure what to do about it. So when I don't know something, I research it. That's what I do. I research things. So I said, you know what? This is probably something other people have wondered about, and I pitched the article to Next Avenue, which is The PBS website for people over age 50 and, I should tell folks here, don't know if you can link to it, but it's nextavenue.org. It's a really great website.

Wendy Green [: 00:09:57

Yes. I'll definitely link to it.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:09:59

Yeah. Great. And, So they accepted it, and I did my research and wrote it.

Wendy Green [: 00:10:06

Well, I found it so fascinating. And, You know, I mean, we all know that loneliness is really becoming an epidemic, especially among older adults and and and, interestingly enough, among the Young kids too, you know, because they've been kind of stuck behind the wall of the computer and their phones. But the article the the comp quote that I quoted you on from the University of Michigan about the impact of Friendship on us as we age and the impact of losing friends as we age. Can you go into that a little bit more?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:10:45

Yeah. I think, you know, when we're younger, and and some of this is Even, you know, hormonal and, just, you know, genetically. Our family is very important. You know, we have a Drive to create families and for family relationships and that kind of thing. As we get older, Our kids do other things, you know, we have more free time, older people get older, they perhaps die on us. So the family that we have really ends up not being as large, and our friends are people that are the ones that we can often lean on for support. Mhmm. And, also, you know, family, again, depending where we are in our lives.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:11:35

Sometimes we don't live near our family. Sometimes we've moved away. Sometimes they've moved away. And then we need these friends to Help us with just what you said, with loneliness, and also to be part of our social lives. So they really are important friendships.

Wendy Green [: 00:11:54

Yeah. Yeah. And that was so interesting to me. So what, like, What makes a good friend, Margie? Do you have a definition, or is it individual?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:12:07

You know, I do have a definition because I was wondering that myself. And I'm gonna give you the the actual there have been studies that actually wrote About the top traits we want our friends to have, and, I'll give you a couple of them. The most important was someone who's honest, Ethical, Pleasant, Available, Discreet, Tolerant, empathetic, fun, smart, and similar. So that's kind of a lot of stuff.

Wendy Green [: 00:12:45

That's a lot. That's a lot.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:12:47

I'll unpack that in a minute, but the most undesirable qualities were dishonesty, Competitiveness in impatience. Mhmm. So I think how we could say it is We want someone to be, you know, we want to be able to trust someone. A lot of these things have to do with trust. You know, honest, ethical, that kind of thing. Discreet, that's all about trust. Pleasant, available, these are all kind of Fun. These are things where you enjoy being with someone.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:13:22

One thing I would say is since honesty comes up twice, And this can be, a little bit tricky. Honesty can be a double edged sword. And I've had this happen in my own relationships, but there are sometimes, And it's hard to know what's right. Sometimes you can be really blunt, and sometimes that works, but for the most part, I would follow this advice by, radio host Bernard Meltzer, and this I included in my article. But if you want to talk to a friend of yours and you're thinking about saying something and you're not sure and it falls under the honesty category, I would say following his advice is this: Before you speak, ask yourself if what you are going to say is true, is kind, is necessary, and is helpful. If the answer is no, maybe you should not say something instead of saying something. So These are words I had read long ago, and I'm always trying to remember this in my interactions with people. But this is one of the reasons that friendships become estranged is because something in here doesn't go right.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:14:49

So maybe what you say is true, but it's really not kind, and it's really not helpful, or it's one or nothing. So with your words, words are really powerful.

Wendy Green [: 00:15:04

Words are really powerful. And it makes me think a little bit about What we've been talking about with empathy, you know, over the last few weeks because and estrangement. Because if you Feel like you're gonna say something that your intention is, I'm gonna help you because I'm gonna share my wisdom with you, or I'm gonna share my insights with You're whatever. Most of the time people don't want you to do that. They don't wanna hear that. They wanna hear that You like them and admire them and respect them and yeah. So maybe it maybe you start with a question, like, Would you would you be okay with me saying something about

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:15:48

whatever, the way you wear your hair Or whatever. Exactly. Or wait for them to ask a question first. If someone says to you, do you like my haircut? They're basically opening it up to some kind of reaction from you. Right? But if you don't like someone's haircut, You know, do you really think that it's there's any reason you should ever share that with a friend? What are you gonna change? You know, you're not gonna make them feel better. They're not gonna change their haircut. Right? So think about sort of really you know, sometimes Same with your spouse. You know, a lot of friendship things are similar to relationships with a spouse or a partner.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:16:29

You know, how you say things and being thoughtful and all that stuff, They're both important relationships, so just be careful with your words.

Wendy Green [: 00:16:38

Yeah. Yeah. Such good advice. So so You mentioned it. I mentioned in the beginning, this toxic friend who's draining our energy and, But they've been a friend a long time. We we just don't know what to do about that. Would you talk about that a little bit?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:16:59

Yeah. And, I was lucky that I kind of grabbed some of these friendship experts and I asked for a script because sometimes I'm better in writing since I'm a writer. You know? And I'm like, what's the script I can use? So that's in my article, some of that scripting. But, basically, I guess the first thing you would need to know is To determine first if someone is a toxic friend would be how you feel when you're around them, and it's Pretty darn clear to me how I feel around the talk to a friend, and this is standard. And it's basically, if If you feel I feel dread. Like, whenever a certain person's name comes up and I need to be in communication or see them, I feel the sense of dread. So that's kinda clear. It's the same kind of thing.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:17:54

Right? If you feel drained, exhausted, stressed, Thinking about that person, spending time with that person, or if you feel bad about yourself if they don't make you feel good. Any of those things Are really red flags that are worth exploring in terms of toxic friendships. In fact, I'll give you an example, from a couple years ago. I had a friend, I will put friend in quotation marks, Who used to make fun of my parenting skills. Mhmm. And I laughed along with her, right, because I was kinda, you know, I was easygoing, but One day, I don't know why, but I thought to myself, you know what? That's not really funny. Like, I don't really need to be put down for my parenting skills. Was I The world's greatest mom? No.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:18:43

But, you know, the silliest things, you know, the way I I had fed my daughter and it wasn't, You know, just perfect and whatever she would say I was sloppy, you know, I'm like, you know, that was just sort of the icing on the cake with some other stuff. But ultimately, I realized our friendship was toxic, so that's one example.

Wendy Green [: 00:19:04

Yeah. And, You know, I think what at least has happened in my experiences, you know, if they've been a friend a while, And and you kind a lot of times, these toxic friends, you recognize that their insecurities are what are Coming out. Right? And so you feel like, oh, I need to give them the benefit of the doubt. I need to be maybe if I try harder and if I'm Kinder, and if I'm, you know, at what point do you finally say, I just can't do this anymore?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:19:38

Well, you'll feel you'll feel, a breaking point, I think. Yeah. And then, I don't know if you do you want me to talk about ghosting and how

Wendy Green [: 00:19:48

Let's right? Because that's where we get to. We're like

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:19:52

That's where we get.

Wendy Green [: 00:19:53

Right? I I don't wanna see them anymore. I don't even wanna confront this. Right.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:20:00

So most of us are conflict diverse. Right? We don't wanna have conflicts, and certainly not with friends, long time friends. It's not fun. Right? Plus, we don't wanna get in an argument, all that kind of thing. So one of the things I've done in the past is I've ghosted friends. And what that means is It's something the term ghosting was really used originally to describe romantic relationships when, You know, people on an online dating site would connect with someone and then they wouldn't hear back from them, that they were ghosted. Well, the same kind of thing can happen with friendships where, you know, you are trying to get in touch with a friend Either to talk with them or to get together with them and they ignore you or they just are never available, but generally they just stop communicating with you. That's also ghosting.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:20:57

So a lot of the time, Most of us will think, well, the easiest thing to do is to just check out, you know, check out of this relationship. Be done with them. And it kind of, like, in theory, it sounds like it would be a good thing. But studies had shown when I did my research That friendship ghosting can be just as upsetting as relationship ghosting, okay, like romantic relationship ghosting. And then I also found out from these psychologists and other friendship experts that it isn't really fair to ghost someone. And When you think about it, it makes sense because, you know, you're really trying to pull away, but you're not Offering any closure. Right? Because you're basically stopping all communication, and you may or may not. I'm the kind who doesn't wanna go back and forth about issues, so, you know, you may or may not have even told the person what the issue was.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:21:59

It's just kind of like I'm done, You know, but in theory, if you have a friend, they deserve the benefit of the doubt, maybe they didn't realize it, maybe they need Be educated. Right? So they really do need to hear these kind of things and, You know, I guess it's up to us to be clear about that with other people and also ask others If if we're being ghosted, which we can be too, if if you're not sure, open yourself up and say, hey, Is there something I did to offend you? You know? Is are we okay? There you know, you can do the same thing for them, and it's it's a process that gets Everything moving both ways so that you're more comfortable confronting others and also receiving, information back from them. That make sense?

Wendy Green [: 00:22:54

It does, and it makes me think of a person that, Like you said, none of us like conflict. Right? And and there is a person that I have just kind of cut off contact with, And it's probably been months now. So is it more painful in your research? I don't know if you found this senior researcher are even asked this question, but could it be more painful to open it up again now, or is that still a better thing to do? And maybe we decide together, it's not worth being friends, or maybe we decide together, wow, that was a big misunderstanding. We need to fix that.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:23:36

Yeah. That's a great question because I have the same issue. Because a lot of us you know, we're not we're sort of in limbo. Right? A lot of times you're kind of like, well, I'm kind of pulling away, but I haven't not exactly sure and whatever. According to the research, and Sadly, I agree with this even though it it requires work. Yeah. And I I'm in the same boat. I have a long time one I have to deal with.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:24:00

Yeah. We probably should, I guess, put our big girl pants on and say, you know, There's something we need to talk about, you know, you might have noticed, I haven't been around as much. You know, there are things you can bring up, and I'm sure the other person is interested in hearing about all this. Or you could if you're totally done and you really, really are done, You could just come up, and I've seen this too, and say, what I need right now is to not have this friendship anymore. So I'm just letting you know that, you know, and I wish you well. So, you know, you can be as clear as that or you can open it up for a give and take. But, yeah, the whole key is closure for both sides.

Wendy Green [: 00:24:49

Yeah. And I think that That you're right. Even though it's uncomfortable Yes. Very You know, sometimes and I've learned, and I'm sure you've learned. Sometimes the most uncomfortable conversations can really have some positive outcomes, especially if you listen.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:25:08

Yeah. We learn the most from Negative stuff, right, or scary stuff or unbreakable stuff. So you're right. Yeah.

Wendy Green [: 00:25:15

Yeah. We do.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:25:16

Yeah.

Wendy Green [: 00:25:17

Well, let's talk about, You know, we we growing up, like, it was easy to make friends. Right? You're on the playground, you're in school, you're wherever in the neighborhood. As we get older and especially once we retire, Margie, and we're or we're working from home like you are and like I am, you know, you don't see people that much. So We know it's important Yep. To have friends. And, you know, how many friends do you need or want is another question. But how do you find New friends as we move into this next stage of life.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:25:52

Yeah, so first of all, let me tackle the number of friends, And there's a very well known researcher named Robin Dunbar. He's British And the summary is that the average in all his studies, the average number of friends was 5 friends that people had. And then they had up to a 150 acquaintances or people they knew, and you couldn't go beyond that and just sort of, like, Be in communication with people. Right. Well, that's like if you do any kind of research, that's the first thing you'll hear. Now again, I'm I don't think especially I think when you're younger, that makes much more sense. I think when we're older, We end up shrinking the number. Like you mentioned, you have 1 or 2 close friends.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:26:43

I just had a conversation with a friend about the same thing. We get choosier and we have different interests. You know, we no longer have to be Friends with the parents of our daughter's best friend in school, you know, because they always play together if if if we don't really Find a friendship there. Right? Or, that kind of thing. We can choose the people we wanna be with, and we know time is limited. Right? I mean, especially after 50, we know we don't have unlimited time. We actually think about time, so we don't wanna waste it spending time with people.

Wendy Green [: 00:27:23

Right.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:27:23

Right? But finding friends is a big, big issue that people talk about all the time. In the easiest Way, it's hard for me to say because I'm really involved in things like pickleball where I've met a gazillion people. Oh, I mean, literally. And I think probably everyone does that plays pickleball. But, you know, for other people who might not have sports or other things like that, Volunteering has been shown to not only make you feel good, but it's also a place to make friends. And Doing anything that interests you is a good way to meet friends because you're automatically gonna connect At least on one level with someone, and that will be a shared interest. Mhmm. Any kind of hobbies, you know, music, There there's so many things that can be done.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:28:19

You know, art, even, you know, beginning painting classes. There's there's many, many things you could do. And then Even social media, if you don't like to go out and about, there are tons of groups online where people really have a lot of Good conversations and actually that can be okay too. So, you know, it's really what you're interested in. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? Family members. Do you have a spouse or partner? You know, depending on what you need, look for people that fill those gaps It look for friends in those areas.

Wendy Green [: 00:28:57

That's a good idea. Sheila has a question, and it kinda relates what we had just talked about, she says if it's been a long time, like several years, and the friendship ruptured, Wow. Is going back to repair this possible?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:29:14

Well again, repair is a good word. Okay. Repair to me says, like, you're still interested in it. So if you're the one doing the ghosting and you wanna repair it? Absolutely. Absolutely. But, If you just happen to use that word and you don't really mean it, if it's been that long, it might be done. So it really depends on the circumstances.

Wendy Green [: 00:29:42

Yeah. I think you make a good point, though. If it's something that's important to you, the time

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:29:48

doesn't matter.

Wendy Green [: 00:29:49

Right. Yes. Make the effort and and be prepared for it not to be repaired, but it's just make the effort.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:29:56

Yeah. If you have zero expectations, you have nowhere to go but up For this one.

Wendy Green [: 00:30:00

Okay. There you go.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:30:01

There you

Wendy Green [: 00:30:01

go. Totally. So I wanted to talk about intergenerational friendships. You know, I've read a lot about that too. Yes. You talk about that in your article and in some and, some of the other things you've written. Sometimes that's even harder, right, to find the intergenerational friends, but I have found that like, I have a 45 year old friend. She's the same age as my daughter, And it's it's really nice to be able to bounce things off of her, and I have older friends.

Wendy Green [: 00:30:36

So, Yeah. What what what is your research showing that is really good about having these intergenerational friends?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:30:44

It's a great point. Most of the research around inter generational friendships talks about the standard inter Generational friendship is like an older person and a grandchild. Okay? Grandparent and grandchild. But to me, I mean, that's

Wendy Green [: 00:31:01

I don't

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:31:01

even know if that counts as a friendship. I mean, that's basically a familiar relationship. What you're saying makes the most sense to me. I find That friendships 1 generation apart are really important. So in your case, you found someone younger The new 1 generation younger, basically. Right? Right. And I have a lot of I'm a Gen Xer, so I've I have a lot of Boomer friends. And To me, those are super important because, you know, there's enough of a connection that You can understand things.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:31:37

You understand you you have some shared history. You can see the world In in the same way, but you can appreciate the life lessons that each generation can offer. You might be able to tell her stuff you've gone through, And she may be able to tell you some cool stuff happening now in the world that you didn't know about. Right? So I think those 1 generation, removed friendships are super important.

Wendy Green [: 00:32:04

Yeah. They also give us insights. You know? Right? Because if if if I'm having some kind of issue with my daughter and I bounce it off of her, she's like, oh, Well, have you thought about it like this? Because that might be how she's looking at it.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:32:20

Right. And when you hear it from your friend, You don't have the same sort of stress and nervousness as if you were talking the same way to your daughter, right? You can have a separate objective conversation with your friend of that age. So that helps too.

Wendy Green [: 00:32:35

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, here's a good question. Sheila another question from Sheila. Thank you. She says, what are some of our misconceptions around friendship and loyalty? Oh. Gee, Sheila.

Wendy Green [: 00:32:50

I know. That's a

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:32:51

I hate to write to new articles here. Friendship and loyalty. You know what? Oh, that is such a great question. Let's see if I can answer it. Okay. So I think and I wanna see if loyal I don't know if loyalty comes up as one of the traits which would be surprising if it doesn't. I'm I'm looking to see I don't remember.

Wendy Green [: 00:33:14

You mentioned this.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:33:14

I don't think loyalty is one

Wendy Green [: 00:33:16

of the things that

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:33:16

is really surprising because to me, loyalty is really, really important. Right? We expect our family members to be loyal. Like, I expect my husband, my daughter to always have my back. Right? But I expect my friends to be loyal too. But I guess we allow them, and this is where the tricky part comes in. Loyalty is a tricky word. Loyalty is basically blanket no matter what someone does, whether they're a murderer, whether they they say something horrible, whatever, you're you're still gonna be staying behind them. But I guess in a true friendship, there are ways to be carefully honest when you discuss, You know how to provide that information that, is is being more loyal and true, being more true To a friend or friendship than just loyalty.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:34:08

But I think on the whole, loyalty in general is important to friendship. Does that make sense?

Wendy Green [: 00:34:16

Yeah. I'm wondering if if it depends on how we define loyalty. You know? Like, do are we them to be available to us all the time because they're a friend. Is that what we're calling loyal, or are we expecting that, like you said, they'll have our back? Yeah. So I think we have to get clear with ourselves on what we're looking for when we're thinking about loyalty and friendship.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:34:46

You know, that brings up a really good point because Some one of the researchers mentioned I'm not sure if this is in the article, but we can actually say those words to someone, like, It's really like, if someone says does something great for you that you like, that was a loyalty thing, whatever that means, You might say, you know, I really appreciated it when you stood up for me when someone was gossiping about me behind my back. That's really important To me and a friend. So there are ways to reinforce specific traits In in whatever definition you describe loyalty, but explaining it as an action that you like Helps the friendship in terms of expectations. So you can do yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Green [: 00:35:37

I like that. That is that is super important. And, and, Susie, thanks. Yeah. She says it's a great point about intergenerational friends. Super important and enriching. Yeah. Coaching.

Wendy Green [: 00:35:48

Sure. Yeah. Totally agree with that. Yep. So so before we wrap up, Do you have some ideas about nurturing friendships? You know? Because it takes time to be a good friend. Right?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:36:06

Yeah. And I tell you what, I've done I just wrote something recently about women's brains in midlife, and how they change, and it's really fascinating. I wrote about that at Next Avenue also. It's called, a book called The Upgrade. But the point is that sometimes it's hard to remember stuff, so especially midlife and beyond, especially boomers, We need to make real efforts, and I do something kind of nutty, but I have a really hard time remembering my friends Because I just I have friends, and I wanna be in touch with them, but I have other things on my mind. So I I hope you can't see it because I don't want anyone to see the name. We can't see it. Uh-oh.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:36:58

Let me move over. Okay. I have a whiteboard with a list of all my friends' names, and, I'm gonna look at it. I have 1, 2. At different times, I've had different iterations, but now I have 3 different columns. So 1 column Is friends that I want to have lunch or dinner with, just me and another friend, they're local. Another column Are couples friends that I want my husband and I to go out with. In the 3rd column are people I need to have a call with or a text with that live farther away but I want to stay in touch with.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:37:39

So the first thing I would say is That's my system. Your system could be whatever. And if you have a good memory, great. But, I mean, I literally sometimes put on the calendar if there's certain people I wanna reach out to, like, you know, you know, reach out to Ellen and Nancy. I'll even put that on my calendar. So, the point is, have either a system or make Sure. Every so often, whatever that timeline is, that you reach out to people because Putting the time in is really critical whether it's in person or whether it's via phone or via text, everything varies. But that's how it works.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:38:25

So when you're in the car or the pool or you have a few minutes, if you're not sure, And I'm not sure. I'll look on my list and say, I haven't talked to that person in a couple months. I really wanna talk to them, so I'll make a phone call. Or If we're planning out our Saturday nights, which we like to do, I'll say, these are the people I wanna get together with and some people aren't on that list that I know. Mhmm. Okay? But these are the people I actively wanna have a friendship with because The other problem is we also get complacent. So we all have friends that'll may not be our favorite, but they'll always ask us to go out places, Kind of like when we were young. Right? Except when we were young, we'd always go out all the time.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:39:12

Nice. Right? Like, I don't wanna always Have a default yes if it's people that I don't really want to be with. So I want to actively choose Who I wanna be friends with. So these are some ways to take back the power in the friendships that you actually wanna have So that you're in control of that.

Wendy Green [: 00:39:34

It's a great idea, and and Susie and Philip both are lined up with you on that. And, You know, I think it does make a lot of sense because we do get busy, and we do you know? And what I have also found, Margie is sometimes I'll be like, tired. It's cold. I don't wanna go out. You know? But once you Make that commitment and you get yourself there. Yes. You enjoy it. You know? Absolutely.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:40:03

And you have friend and some friends are great for helping you do that 2.

Wendy Green [: 00:40:06

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Let's see. And and Philip also made a comment. He says, I believe that our boomer demographic desperately needs a few close Friends. Yes, many are alone away from family, no family, beginning to think of dying alone.

Wendy Green [: 00:40:23

Yep. Helping people get a few close friends seem paramount.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:40:28

Absolutely agree. Yep.

Wendy Green [: 00:40:31

And so I think our role as a good friend is to be that person that also helps those of us who don't get out or don't wanna get out, you know, to be there for them. Just Shop. Buy with some groceries or something sometimes is a good thing to do.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:40:49

And by the way, that That's a good case for intergenerational friendships too. Mhmm. Okay. I have some older friends, it's funny you should mention that, especially during the pandemic. I had some older friends that really did not want to go out and about, and I didn't mind. So I would Pick up groceries or, you know, whatever. So, yeah, they may be more mobile. Some people don't like to drive at night.

Wendy Green [: 00:41:16

That's right.

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:41:16

You know, so that may be you know, if you have an intergenerational friendship, it may be more likely that a younger person, might be willing. So, you know, there there's trade offs with everything. Yet, to to look at the big picture of your life and say, What do I like to do? What can I offer? You know, what can I offer as a friend? What do I want in friends? What is my life need? These are all things that are worth considering.

Wendy Green [: 00:41:43

Margie, I think this has been an incredibly helpful conversation, and And I appreciate all of the comments that we've received because people are obviously taking away a lot from this. Let me tell them how they can find you. So, Margie has a website that's Margie z or Zeda or whatever you wanna say it. Margzfisher.com. And that's where you'll also be able to find the 50 year old mermaid link. Correct?

Margie Zable Fisher [: 00:42:14

Yes. And I also send out a monthly email to my subscribers about happy and healthy evening tips, and I would love anyone to sign up It's that same website for that too.

Wendy Green [: 00:42:26

Awesome. You can also email Margie directly if you have comments or questions or You wanna invite her to speak or write for you, and you can email her at margie@margiezfisher.com. And as I mentioned, the 50 year old mermaid, there is a Facebook group, called the 50 year old mermaid, and 50 is five o. So go ahead. Check that out. Join the group. And, you know, there's a lot of fun things there. So Thank you so much, Margie.

Wendy Green [: 00:43:01

It's you. And I love it. I love seeing all those conversations. That was that was fun. Yes and I want to encourage you all to become a Boomer Believer. Do it now so that you can join us tomorrow night when we talk to Dean King, and you do that by going to buymeacoffee.com / heyboomer0413, and that's where you can be. You can join just the banter if you want, Or you can become a boom reliever so you get both. Or if you're not ready to become a member, you can just Buy me a virtual cup of coffee.

Wendy Green [: 00:43:42

So it's $5, however much you wanna contribute if you're enjoying the show. So that's buymeacoffee.com/heyboomer0413. Alright. Over the past 4 weeks, we have talked about estrangement between siblings, Between parents and their adult children, within families, and now about friendship. Next Monday, I'm actually going to be traveling back from my nephew's wedding or one of my nephew's weddings, so I'm going to Record a overall summary, takeaways, things that we have learned over the past 4 weeks that, You know, maybe they've all been all over the place, so I'm going to try and put them together in 1 episode that you can watch or listen to even though I won't be with you live. And then the following week, February 12th, we will be starting a new Series around caregiving, and in that series we're going to be talking about the journey from being a care partner to a caregiver. We're gonna be talking about solo aging as Philip brought up and, you know, who's gonna take care of you, but also who's gonna ask you to take care of them as a friend. So that's gonna be part of that discussion, and then we're going to talk about, From a child adult child's perspective, what it means to be a caregiver for your, parent.

Wendy Green [: 00:45:23

So lots. This is great. This has been great, Margie. Thank you so much. Thank you. So continue to embrace this time of your life with exploration, self expression, and learning. And I'd like to close by reminding you that Hey Bloomer is produced by me, Wendy Greene, and the music At the opening was written and performed by Griffin Hunrado, who is a student at the North Carolina University School of the Arts, And my grandson. So that is very sweet.

Wendy Green [: 00:46:02

Yes. Yeah. Alright, y'all. See you next week. Thanks, Margie. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.