Uncovering the Wisdom of Morrie: Life Lessons on Living and Aging Well
Rob Schwartz, the son of Morrie Schwartz, of "Tuesdays With Morrie" fame, has edited and released an extraordinary manuscript his dad wrote called "The Wisdom of Morrie."
In this thought-provoking episode, we dive deep into the inspirational pages of this book.
We explore the power of addressing ageism as a psychological issue, just like we combat racism and sexism. "The Wisdom of Morrie" offers a unique blend of psychological analysis and practical tips for living a vibrant life.
We learn about the incredible empathy Morrie possessed and his vision for a unified world without strife.
We talk about how important it is to support and connect with our aging parents, especially when they are dealing with illness. Communication, finding common ground, and cherishing every moment become essential.
Please let me know what you think about this episode by leaving a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Transcript
Hello, and welcome to the Hey Boomer Show. The show
Speaker:for those of us who believe we are never too old to set
Speaker:another goal or dream a new dream. My name
Speaker:is Wendy Green, and I am your host for Hay Boomer.
Speaker:And today is my birthday. My 70th
Speaker:birthday, and I am feeling so grateful
Speaker:and blessed with all the love and good wishes that I have
Speaker:been receiving this birthday, and I can think of
Speaker:no better way to return this love and appreciation
Speaker:Then to offer you the conversation today with Rob
Speaker:Schwartz, the son of Maury Schwartz, the beloved
Speaker:professor, from Tuesdays with Maury.
Speaker:In the early 2000, Rob discovered the
Speaker:manuscript that was to become the beautiful book,
Speaker:The Wisdom of Morey. After much
Speaker:family discussion, It was decided that Rob should
Speaker:edit and have the book published.
Speaker:Maury wrote this manuscript between 1988
Speaker:1992 before he was diagnosed with the
Speaker:ALS that they talk about in Tuesdays with
Speaker:Maury. Rob had the
Speaker:opportunity to discuss the book with his dad while his
Speaker:dad was writing it. In the wisdom
Speaker:of Maury, Maury shares his thoughts on things like
Speaker:aging joyfully. and the discrimination
Speaker:and pain of ageism. He talks about becoming the
Speaker:best person we can be. Maury discusses
Speaker:morals and ethics and living a meaningful life,
Speaker:finding hope when we feel that there is none.
Speaker:And as I was reading, and I felt like I was reading his personal journal,
Speaker:and each part of it caused me to stop and think and
Speaker:reflect and, you know, try to internalize
Speaker:it. It's not a book to be
Speaker:read quickly. As Maury says in the introduction,
Speaker:take the time to think about it issue carefully.
Speaker:Look at it from many sides and talk about it. Perhaps
Speaker:even in a discussion group, talking with friends,
Speaker:peers, and family is crucial.
Speaker:You may benefit from keeping a journal of your thoughts and reactions.
Speaker:Allow the time the ideas they
Speaker:deserve and think about them.
Speaker:Maury dedicated his life to helping people understand their
Speaker:relationships to society, other people and
Speaker:themselves. This book The
Speaker:wisdom of Laurie is his gift to us, and
Speaker:this conversation is my gift to you.
Speaker:So we have less than an hour to talk about this, and I wanna get
Speaker:right into it. So I'm gonna bring Rob on and do a brief
Speaker:introduction so that we can start our conversation. Hey, Rob.
Speaker:Hey, Wendy. Thanks for being with me
Speaker:today. I'm so excited. my honor, and thank you for
Speaker:having me on your momentous occasion of your 70. I didn't
Speaker:realize it was your 70 You look fantastic, by the way. I
Speaker:never would have guessed. Well, thank you. Thank you. You
Speaker:know, us boomers, we all are, like, evolving in a
Speaker:different way these years. Right. Right. I have something to
Speaker:say about the whole boomer thing. Maybe we can leave that to the end. Not
Speaker:that there's anything wrong with Boomer, but, you know, why I get lumped in with
Speaker:the Boomers and I don't feel like a Boomer at
Speaker:all. Right? because I'm right at the end of what's supposed to be a
Speaker:boomer, but, you know, the difference between being born in 1945 and,
Speaker:like, 1963, it's pretty gigantic It's a big
Speaker:difference there. Yeah. There is a big difference. Okay.
Speaker:Alright. Well, let me do a brief intro, Rob. Give them a little bit
Speaker:above your your background. Sure. Okay.
Speaker:So Rob Schwartz is a writer, producer, and entrepreneur.
Speaker:His work has appeared in time Newsweek, Variety,
Speaker:a Hollywood reporter interview, and Melody maker among
Speaker:others. He was a script editor at
Speaker:NHK World TV for 14 years and has
Speaker:been an Asia correspondent for Billboard Magazine since
Speaker:2008. In 2005, he founded
Speaker:the electro rock crossover label, diagnostic records
Speaker:in Japan. Rob also produces
Speaker:feature films, including Putty Hill in 2010
Speaker:and Bernard and Huey in 2017.
Speaker:He actively invests in tech based startups
Speaker:and is currently a partner in the virtual concert creation
Speaker:platform, Washpit. Wow.
Speaker:You're busy. Yeah. Try my best. You know?
Speaker:And now you're a writer and editor your dad's
Speaker:magazine. that's your dad's book. Sorry.
Speaker:Book. That's okay. Yep. So so let's the context of the book, The
Speaker:Wisdom of Mori, you say it was written between 1988
Speaker:1992. and that you had the opportunity to discuss it with
Speaker:your dad while he was writing it. So tell tell us
Speaker:about your discussions and your interactions with your dad.
Speaker:Sure. So a little bit of background first. I was a, like,
Speaker:a prodigal son. I skidded off to Asia at the first
Speaker:opportunity after I graduated from university. And I was
Speaker:there for a couple of years traveling and working.
Speaker:And in the summer of 1989, I came back home
Speaker:to the family house, which was in Newton, Massachusetts. Mitch describes
Speaker:it so eloquently in Tuesday with Maury with the maple tree in
Speaker:front that house. And I lived at home
Speaker:for 3 months before I returned to Asia. This was a sort of a low
Speaker:for me. Didn't have a job. you know, I was preparing
Speaker:to go back to Asia. So I was with my dad pretty much every
Speaker:day, and he was right in the middle of working on this book. So I
Speaker:had the opportunity to sit with him and talk with him about his
Speaker:ideas and share stuff with him. And it was a little funny
Speaker:because, you know, I was in my twenties, you know, mid
Speaker:twenties at this time. And he was writing a book about
Speaker:aging, but he was really interested to bounce the ideas off me
Speaker:and see what I thought and see how he thought that I felt they
Speaker:would be received and stuff like that. So I had a great
Speaker:background in this book, and it's, you know, it's it's very serendipitous
Speaker:that I just happened to be home during those 3 months that he
Speaker:was writing the book because pretty much the rest of the time, I that's
Speaker:the last time I lived at home. I mean, I visited a lot,
Speaker:and I was certainly with my father a lot while he was ill. but I
Speaker:had a residence in Tokyo, and I was living in Tokyo for many, many
Speaker:years, including basically the whole rest of the time my father was
Speaker:alive. after, you know, that 3
Speaker:months in 1989. So it was it was
Speaker:really wonderful to be able to share that time with him and, you
Speaker:know, get a hold of his ideas. He he really felt motivated
Speaker:to write this book because in 1986,
Speaker:he had been more or less forced to retire from Grand Dice
Speaker:University. This used to be a thing. It's not really a thing anymore for
Speaker:professors but in those days, at 70,
Speaker:they basically pushed you out. They tried to have him retire at 65,
Speaker:and he refused. And then again, at 68, and he refused
Speaker:again. And at 70, they said, yeah. You don't have any choice. So
Speaker:that was 1986. And he
Speaker:was thinking about this whole concept of that
Speaker:society viewed him as an aging person. He
Speaker:never viewed himself that way. And he was always
Speaker:around young people and full of energy and full of vibrancy as
Speaker:you can get from this book, but he realized that society
Speaker:viewed him that way, and he didn't really like it. And
Speaker:he had to investigate why am I do I have a problem with
Speaker:this? and he sort of realized that he had this internalized
Speaker:ageism, which he discusses in the beginning of the book.
Speaker:and he realized that it's so pervasive that we just have
Speaker:this negative image of people over a certain age that, you
Speaker:know, can't do anything. They should just go sit corner and leave
Speaker:people alone, and he just thought this is so wrong and so
Speaker:poisonous. And that's what motivated him to write the book.
Speaker:That's so interesting. I I mean, there's a couple of things that come up for
Speaker:me as you say that. One is his discussion
Speaker:about ageism I think we're so far ahead of his time. I mean,
Speaker:that's become like a buzzword these days. You know, we talk
Speaker:about ageism as the last ism
Speaker:that's being addressed in the in the workforce. Yes. And your dad was talking
Speaker:about it in 1988. That's right. It's pretty
Speaker:amazing. The other thing that comes up for me though, Rob, is you said,
Speaker:you know, he was talking to you about this trying to get your impression
Speaker:as a young man, you were in your twenties. Do you think he
Speaker:was thinking ahead and saying, you know, at some point,
Speaker:your age group is gonna be faced with this and having to think
Speaker:about these things. I don't know. I
Speaker:mean, he didn't present it to me that way when we discussed it, he might
Speaker:have been thinking that. I think
Speaker:that was just interested to get some feedback on the ideas. And, you
Speaker:know, I studied philosophy in university. So I have a sort of
Speaker:philosophical mind as did he I mean, I I got a lot of it
Speaker:from him. And, you know, he wanted on that
Speaker:sort of level to bounce the ideas off and see if it sort of made
Speaker:sense. or held together as a way of
Speaker:thinking. And I'll say one other thing about the ageism, not only
Speaker:was he very much ahead of his time in addressing ages, He
Speaker:even coined a phrase to
Speaker:isolate a particular type of ageism, which he called age
Speaker:casting, He took from the idea of type casting the way you type
Speaker:cast an actor and he said elderly people or seniors
Speaker:are pushed into a certain role in society, which is basically the
Speaker:role of a useless person. And obviously, this is completely
Speaker:wrong and and evil. And so their age
Speaker:casted. Once you get to a certain age, you're cast into a certain
Speaker:position. And I mean, ageism in general
Speaker:is terrible, and this is a specific form of it which he
Speaker:identified. Yeah. He was so far
Speaker:ahead of his time. It was just amazing to read all of that.
Speaker:So you found this document this
Speaker:manuscript in his desk in
Speaker:2000. He passed away in 90
Speaker:9095. He passed away 95. I think I found the document
Speaker:in 2002, but I'm not exactly sure of the year. It might have
Speaker:been 2003. Okay. So
Speaker:what was that like to find it and and why did
Speaker:you now decide to publish it? Right. Well, as you can
Speaker:imagine, especially since as I explained, I had talked to him
Speaker:a bunch about these ideas. So I'll set the scene for you and you
Speaker:can probably, intuit my feeling when I explained this. So
Speaker:as you mentioned, I'm a journalist. As I mentioned, I used to go back and
Speaker:forth between Tokyo and Boston to be with my mom after
Speaker:my father passed away. We had a house in Newton. Was very
Speaker:comfortable. I had one room, you know, She was living alone at
Speaker:this point. My brother was in California and still is in California.
Speaker:and, so I used to sit at his desk and type my
Speaker:you know, journalistic pieces on my computer and one day I
Speaker:just pulled open his desk drawer because she had kept his study
Speaker:exactly as it was when he was alive. He hadn't moved anything. So he had
Speaker:hundreds of books and even papers were around
Speaker:sometimes I would look at the papers, but, you know, they didn't mean that much
Speaker:to me. And then I pulled open this desk drawer and there was this
Speaker:big black thing. It's
Speaker:not not small. I mean, he had bounded with hard,
Speaker:like, cardboard cover. It was not like a little tiny book
Speaker:or you know, some typed pages of manuscript. It was
Speaker:a big heavy thing and I was like, what's this? And I opened it up
Speaker:and, you know, it was like discovering hidden treasure. because
Speaker:not only was it my father's words and his ideas and things
Speaker:that I had heard about and thought were valuable, but now it was in
Speaker:the context of Tuesdays with Maury, which it hadn't been
Speaker:in that context before when I had ever thought about it. Right? So
Speaker:immediately, it struck me as like, okay. we have an opportunity
Speaker:to do something with this because it would have been hard if Tuesdays
Speaker:with Moore hadn't existed. I'm not sure. that I could have gotten published.
Speaker:Maybe some editor would have said this is good. Let's publish it. But you
Speaker:know how the publishing world is. If you don't have a name, If you're not
Speaker:known for something, anything, really, then it's really
Speaker:hard. And he was now a known quantity, and I knew that we
Speaker:would be able to publish it. And I should add that that is all due
Speaker:to Tuesdays with Maury and my family owes Mitch album an
Speaker:incredible debt of gratitude for what he did
Speaker:and writing that wonderful book, which is so accessible to
Speaker:everybody. And so, I mean, it's almost lyrical that book, you
Speaker:know. Yeah. That book really does give you an insight into
Speaker:your dad, but, in fact, I went back and read it because
Speaker:when I read this book, the wisdom of Maury.
Speaker:I I saw so much in there that was
Speaker:positive and uplifting in a way to even if
Speaker:you're in despair was his word. Even if you're feeling in
Speaker:despair, you could, you know, reignite your hope.
Speaker:And I thought, Did he was he a really
Speaker:able to do that after he had ALS?
Speaker:And as I reread the wisdom of Tuesdays with
Speaker:Maury. It seemed like he was.
Speaker:Sure. I mean, I think the answer to that is yes. but
Speaker:it's not as easy or it wasn't as easy for him as maybe some
Speaker:people, you know, imagine. Like, he was a positive guy, so he
Speaker:got this you know, fatal diagnosis. And he said, that's fine. I'm gonna
Speaker:be positive. No. Not at all. He struggled with it. And there's
Speaker:a very powerful clip you may or may not be. I have a
Speaker:feeling you will be familiar with. There's 3 programs done
Speaker:by Ted Coppell on his night line news
Speaker:magazine show, which was the biggest news magazine show in the nineties,
Speaker:right, had called Nighteline, and they had my father on three
Speaker:times because he so popular. Usually, they only did one
Speaker:episode on one thing and moved on. They had that on three times and
Speaker:also watched the progression of his illness. but I think
Speaker:it's the 1st or second,
Speaker:time they had him on. He talks about how sometimes he gets up in
Speaker:the morning and he's totally morose and he has
Speaker:to, like, mourn for himself and cry. but he
Speaker:makes a conscious decision. Like, I am gonna be positive.
Speaker:I'm gonna live the life, the fullest life that I can now and
Speaker:contribute what I can now. you know, whatever the circumstances,
Speaker:it's a real conscious decision and not an easy one. I mean, you
Speaker:know, it's not easy for anybody. So I don't want people to
Speaker:have, any illusion, illusion that he
Speaker:was somehow it didn't affect him or he had this indomitable spirit that
Speaker:nothing could touch. Not like that at all. It was a struggle for
Speaker:him, and I think it's a struggle for everybody. 1, who have any
Speaker:kind of illness and 2, in general, I mean, life is a struggle
Speaker:in some ways emotionally and, you know,
Speaker:even intellectually in a lot of different ways. So you know, if
Speaker:you're struggling, don't think that my father didn't go through exactly the
Speaker:same thing. He did. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that,
Speaker:Rob. You know, I also lived with a father
Speaker:who was a very positive person, and
Speaker:there is a part of that that is hard to live with because you
Speaker:start to feel like, well, I can't turn it off and turn it on that
Speaker:quickly and that easily as he seems to be able to
Speaker:do. So, have you learned some
Speaker:techniques for yourself that help you to turn
Speaker:on the positive Sure. And some of them are in the book. I
Speaker:mean, it's funny because I've talked about this topic a lot.
Speaker:And as I talk about it, I sort of noticed that my
Speaker:life and a lot of the things in the book are kind of interwoven.
Speaker:And that's not surprising because he was my father, and we were
Speaker:very, very close. and a lot of the things that he taught me, you know,
Speaker:weren't necessarily sitting down and giving a lecture, but whatever
Speaker:by, you know, example or by just in
Speaker:the air, you sort of pick it up and some things are maybe more
Speaker:more stated. But for example, it's in the book and I also
Speaker:try and emulate this. And as I said, I spent a lot of time in
Speaker:Asia. I mean, I think meditation is a wonderful tool
Speaker:can be totally separate from any kind of religion or
Speaker:spirituality, or it doesn't have to be. It depends on you, but it can
Speaker:just totally be a technique to calm your mind,
Speaker:to calm your energy, to focus, and, you know,
Speaker:it's it's wonderful. And I certainly practice that in my father
Speaker:about it a lot in the book. And he talked about
Speaker:meditation and mindfulness. Yeah. Yes. I'm
Speaker:curious you are a creative person. You've
Speaker:created music. You've created film. You've created,
Speaker:you know, all kinds of articles. This
Speaker:manuscript, which you edited, but didn't write, how were you
Speaker:able to tap into your own creativity
Speaker:while you were editing it. That's an interesting question. you
Speaker:know, creativity is an interesting and in some ways tricky
Speaker:thing. So I'll try and answer the best I can. So first of all, I
Speaker:should note that I did write 2 essays. I write an essay in
Speaker:the beginning of the book and the end of the book. The essay in the
Speaker:beginning of the book is more about my dad. The essay at the end of
Speaker:the book is more about my mom. So it's about our family. They're
Speaker:both about the story of this book and how it came to be
Speaker:in my participation and and so on.
Speaker:about the editing in terms of my creativity, I
Speaker:mean, there's a little bit here and there about
Speaker:a turn of phrase or I retitled some of the
Speaker:sections to try and capture what my father was
Speaker:saying. But for the most part, one of the key
Speaker:aspects of editing this book was maintaining my
Speaker:father's voice. If you've read the book and I know you have, you'll
Speaker:understand that his voice comes through so strong
Speaker:and so pure in this book that that was my
Speaker:number one priority was not to alter that
Speaker:or, you know, filter it in any way. So,
Speaker:I mean, I think that that is also a kind of creativity. Right?
Speaker:creativity is an interesting thing to be able to craft something
Speaker:to make it better, but to keep the essence of it. In this case,
Speaker:his voice that that's a creative task in and of itself.
Speaker:And we can talk specifically about the editing if you like, how I edited what
Speaker:I did, but in answer to your question, I think that's how I express my
Speaker:creativity for this book for any. Sure. Go on. Tell us
Speaker:about the editing. Well, my father was an academic. Right? Now
Speaker:this is not an academic work. This is very much an everyday
Speaker:work. And in fact, it's even broader than that. It's, as
Speaker:you know, works in stories and poetry
Speaker:and newspaper articles, it changes and offers all of these
Speaker:different things to try and reach you in different ways.
Speaker:So my editing, I really had to try and make it
Speaker:go smoothly. And as I said, my father was an academic, so sometimes
Speaker:he tended to get a little long winded. So that was the point where I
Speaker:had to step in and say, okay. You've given 3 examples of this.
Speaker:We don't need 7. You know? And I'm serious. I mean, he could
Speaker:be quite cold ended. You know? Okay. You've listed 6
Speaker:things that people can do. We don't need 18.
Speaker:Right? Well, I'm I'm barely exaggerating here.
Speaker:You know, he was he was like that. He was so full of ideas
Speaker:So it was a matter of cutting things out and trimming
Speaker:it down. So it'd be a little bit more digestible. I think the book
Speaker:is pretty digestible. but it's also pretty long. I mean, you have to,
Speaker:you know, you have to sit down and and apply yourself to this
Speaker:book. Right? You do. You do. And I'm I'm glad you you talked
Speaker:about the ideas because I think he what I get
Speaker:from a lot of it is that he really wanted to help
Speaker:people by sharing some of these ideas. So if you're stuck
Speaker:on, well, how do I go out and connect with people? Or if you're stuck
Speaker:on Life list looks grim right now. He
Speaker:gives you some very practical ideas of
Speaker:things you can do. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I
Speaker:wanna take this back a step and then I'll go forward with what you said.
Speaker:So that's right. He did write this book specifically to try and help
Speaker:people. and we talked about that in 1989
Speaker:when I was talking to him. So there were three things
Speaker:that he did that specifically in his
Speaker:mind were to try and help people. he
Speaker:the first part is about ageism as we discussed. and a
Speaker:psychological analysis of how this affects
Speaker:people psychologically and how you need to try to
Speaker:rid yourself. I mean, you need to acknowledge it and expel
Speaker:it like all of the other kind of negative attitudes
Speaker:that we have, whether it's racism or sexism and stuff. This is stuff that
Speaker:we learned, you know, as a as a culture,
Speaker:and we try and get rid of them now because we realize that they're wrong,
Speaker:you know, essentially. Right? you
Speaker:can't judge somebody by their race. You can't judge somebody by their gender.
Speaker:Right? That's just, you know, a plain truth in this day and age.
Speaker:and you can't judge somebody by their age. So that was the first part
Speaker:to address ageism as a psychological you know, the
Speaker:psychological aspect of and try and get people to expunge it. So as
Speaker:you know, my father was a social psychologist. That was his
Speaker:background. That was his orientation. That was his initial
Speaker:approach to this book. That's just the first way which he tries to help people.
Speaker:The second way, as you know, is He gives
Speaker:specific stories, techniques, ideas
Speaker:to try and get people to be able to live more vibrantly
Speaker:or more creatively or address something in their
Speaker:life that is, you know, making them less happy, whether it's
Speaker:despair, whether it's loneliness, he goes into very
Speaker:specific things in the second half of the book. So in that way, I feel
Speaker:like there's kind of two halves to the book. The first half about,
Speaker:the psychological analysis in the second half is really practical
Speaker:tips. And the third thing is more general, as I sort of already
Speaker:noted, he uses so many different things. He drops
Speaker:in stories. There's so many stories, you know, of the ninety five
Speaker:year old guy who's just graduated from college and wants to
Speaker:become a doctor, you know, or whatever. There's a lot of
Speaker:stories like that. When he's trying to take you sort of out of the
Speaker:narrative of the book or the ideas of the book and more appeal to
Speaker:your imagination. That's why their stories
Speaker:and poetry and newspaper articles. And, you
Speaker:know, it's not his voice then. It's somebody else's story. Somebody else's
Speaker:voice. So it's sort of got those 3 aspects to
Speaker:it. It really is a beautiful
Speaker:story. So if you had to kind of
Speaker:summarize what your dad's outlook on life was, his
Speaker:philosophy of life. Well, how well, how would you
Speaker:describe that? Oh, you know, actually, I've done a lot of these,
Speaker:and that's actually the first time I've ever been asked that.
Speaker:There's a lot of different answers. I'll go with the one that
Speaker:is most applicable to this book.
Speaker:So my father had this incredible empathy
Speaker:for other people. to be
Speaker:able to feel their pain, to feel their joy,
Speaker:to feel what they were feeling. And this led him
Speaker:to believe since he felt so deeply what other people were
Speaker:feeling that a world in which we were, you know,
Speaker:unified and everybody lived in
Speaker:harmony with everybody else. And, you know, we didn't have
Speaker:wars or economic sparity, people starving to
Speaker:death. You know, obviously, there's always gonna be disease, but that that's something else. You
Speaker:know, social problems. And he wrote a lot about social
Speaker:problems, in terms of the academic world, but that's something
Speaker:else. he saw we could have a world
Speaker:without those things. kind of, you know, somebody would call him
Speaker:a idealistic world or whatever, you know, along the lines of John
Speaker:Lennon in a mat the song imagine. Right? So I would say
Speaker:yeah. Absolutely. So I would say that fundamentally, that
Speaker:was his philosophy of life. If we could just reach
Speaker:enough people and get them to understand that we're
Speaker:all the same. People all over the world are the same, have the same
Speaker:concerns, the same troubles, the same,
Speaker:you know, a basic values, you know, everyone
Speaker:loves their family, Everyone wants to live a good comfortable
Speaker:life. You know, no one really wants to hurt anybody else.
Speaker:if we could understand that as a society and as a world, we
Speaker:could live in a much, much better world. So I think fundamentally,
Speaker:that was his philosophy. And it was informed by his
Speaker:personal experiences, which we can talk about. And he does
Speaker:talk about in book, and he also is mentioned to Tuesdays with Maury.
Speaker:So I can go into that if you want. Yeah. Please.
Speaker:So that was informed by the death of his
Speaker:mother. He lost his mother at eight years old, and it
Speaker:was so painful for him And he felt so
Speaker:much sadness that it actually took him decades
Speaker:decades to fully process that and to grieve for
Speaker:her. And that's what made him in his view, and I think
Speaker:it's true. Sorry. So
Speaker:sensitive to other people's pain and
Speaker:ability to feel what they were feeling because he had
Speaker:had that experience at such a young age. It also informed
Speaker:his academic life and his professional life. I write
Speaker:about this in my essay. his
Speaker:big breakthrough in academically
Speaker:and was also a huge watershed in social psychiatry
Speaker:was a book called The Mental Hospital came out in 1954.
Speaker:He wrote it with a very famous psychiatrist at the time Alfred Stanton, but
Speaker:it was basically his research. in a psychiatric
Speaker:ward. And what he found out was that
Speaker:the relationships between all of the people
Speaker:in the ward affected the patient, not just the
Speaker:patient and doctor or patient and nurse, but, like,
Speaker:if 2 doctors were having a disagreement, this would
Speaker:affect the patient or if
Speaker:nurses were, you know, fighting among themselves. So he
Speaker:realized that all of us are interconnected and that our
Speaker:feet were so sensitive to the emotions and the
Speaker:energies that are around us. and this really informed his
Speaker:whole life and his academic work and and his
Speaker:personal life in many ways. some of which I talk about the s
Speaker:in the essay, and I can talk about now if you like. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. No. It I forgot about the story about his mother.
Speaker:Yeah. And he Yeah. It did take him a while to process
Speaker:that. So what -- Yeah. What was he like as a
Speaker:father? it's funny because
Speaker:there's really 2 ways for me to answer this. I mean,
Speaker:when you're a kid, you never think, like, oh, my
Speaker:father's perfect or, you know, doing everything right. You
Speaker:never think that. Even, you know, you love your father and love him deeply
Speaker:and you look up to him, and he's your role model. But you always
Speaker:think like, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about or whatever. So
Speaker:I, of course, I was the same as a child. In retrospect, of course,
Speaker:you feel about it very differently, but I do have to say. I mean, he
Speaker:was a pretty wonderful father. You know, he
Speaker:he didn't have any of those what
Speaker:shall we call them? faults that we hear about other
Speaker:fathers. He was very emotionally accessible. He spent a lot
Speaker:of time with me. He never or rarely
Speaker:got, you know, angry or for no reason. He was not
Speaker:abusive. You know, obviously, the idea of physical
Speaker:punishment was completely, you
Speaker:know, foreign to him. I mean, there might have been a few times when
Speaker:He was, you know, when I was little and my brother was little when he
Speaker:might have sort of, like, alluded to the fact that there was
Speaker:a possibility that something might happen to us if we
Speaker:kept behaving badly. We would never ever have laid
Speaker:a finger on us. That was just so foreign to him. that
Speaker:idea that you would, you know, hit your child or something like that.
Speaker:So he was a pretty pretty amazing father. I mean, I can't
Speaker:really find a fault with him. He spent a lot of time with
Speaker:us. He was very involved with our lives. He loved
Speaker:having children He talks about that in Tuesdays with Maury, and
Speaker:he talks about it a little bit in this book. He there's a section on
Speaker:family in Tuesdays with Maury where he talks about it. and, you know, he
Speaker:says it's the most wonderful thing in the world. So, yeah, he
Speaker:was a pretty spectacular father.
Speaker:I bet it was. So you mentioned,
Speaker:that you don't feel like a boomer, although you are. You're right on the
Speaker:cutting edge of it. I mean, depends. I'll talk to you about that. I'm gonna
Speaker:cut you off because, there's this guy that came up with
Speaker:this concept of people born. I think he
Speaker:he cuts it off at about 1958 or
Speaker:57 to 64. and he says these
Speaker:people are not Boomers. I can't remember the author's name, but he calls them the
Speaker:Jones generation. really separates it.
Speaker:So, you know, this is a cultural trope. Oh, we have this
Speaker:generation. We have that generation. The greatest generation
Speaker:Boomers generation X, but I'm kind of born
Speaker:on the border of generation X. The guy that
Speaker:who wrote the book called Generation X is is born
Speaker:right around the same time as me. And, yeah, I mean, I never felt
Speaker:like, you know, I was part of the sixties or anything like that.
Speaker:When I was in high school, we felt like the sixties were ancient
Speaker:history. Now, of course, they were only like 8 years before, but
Speaker:when you're a teenager, something 8 years before is ancient
Speaker:history. You know, we listen to course, we listened to some
Speaker:music that was the sixties and we listened to music that was influenced by the
Speaker:sixties, but we also listened to, like, punk, and
Speaker:NewWave, which was a reaction against the sixties, right, or in
Speaker:whole psychedelic sixties music. You know? You're too bad. Yeah.
Speaker:You missed all the good music, but now -- You know, there's a difference
Speaker:if we're, like, 9 years or -- Right. You are now
Speaker:protesting the war and all of that. good stuff.
Speaker:But my -- Yeah. But I've never pro stent has protested the war. That was
Speaker:history for me. Yeah. Oh, well, those were the good old days.
Speaker:But I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying I don't
Speaker:personally feel like a boomer. I know people who are similar to my
Speaker:age who do feel like boomers, And I was a little surprised when they told
Speaker:me, oh, yeah. When I was 12, I was wearing bell bottoms. It's like,
Speaker:I was not wearing bell bottoms when I was 12.
Speaker:So, you know, everyone's -- Well, but here's here's really where
Speaker:I was going with that question. Okay. So you're you're
Speaker:60. Right? A little older than that, but yeah. A little
Speaker:older than that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So as your dad is in this book and
Speaker:you've worked on this book and now you're speaking about the book, The Wisdom of
Speaker:Morey and the about so much of it is about ageism and
Speaker:and making peace with where we are and, you know,
Speaker:accepting regrets
Speaker:and and learning from our past and all of this. How has
Speaker:that had an impact on you as you start to look
Speaker:at Oh, 70, 80. That's not that far
Speaker:off now. Right. Right. Right. Well, I
Speaker:mean, I don't know if replicating
Speaker:my father's experience or, you know,
Speaker:approach to it, but I never felt old
Speaker:I never felt even like I was aging. you work in
Speaker:music. There's a lot of young people. You work in film. You work
Speaker:creatively. there's people younger than you.
Speaker:And, I'm starting to feel
Speaker:just like my dad, maybe it happened to him at 70.
Speaker:like, oh, maybe I am, you know, aging a
Speaker:little bit. So I'm just coming in to that,
Speaker:that whatever attitude or understanding or
Speaker:mindset where, you know, maybe some of these things apply to
Speaker:me. I don't feel like I'm aging yet, but I'm
Speaker:certainly getting close to it. And yeah, you need to think about,
Speaker:like, how am I gonna approach this? What am I gonna do?
Speaker:And I think one of the major things, which my father talks about a
Speaker:little bit in this book, but not that much. is, you know, you need to
Speaker:keep in good physical shape. I mean, that's something that we've learned, I think,
Speaker:is really emphasized now or in the last
Speaker:15 years and wasn't emphasized so much like 40
Speaker:years ago or 30 years ago, you know, when my father was
Speaker:was aging though. He was very active. He was always
Speaker:walking and he swam regularly, but you really need
Speaker:to do physical activity. This is going to extend your life. I mean,
Speaker:this is proven. This is going to extend your life. Like, you need to
Speaker:walk or swim or go to the gym or do some
Speaker:physical activity almost every day, certainly every
Speaker:week. and this is gonna what's gonna keep you active and energetic.
Speaker:And, you know, that's something I'm trying to, integrate
Speaker:into my life because, obviously, a journalist. I'm used to sitting in
Speaker:my computer writing or, you know, whatever. So
Speaker:Right. Right. Well, I I mean, I think as your dad said in
Speaker:the book. You know, we we aging is a
Speaker:privilege. Right? If we get to that stage where
Speaker:we're now gonna look at the next horizon. It's a
Speaker:privilege because not everybody gets there. So -- Right. Well,
Speaker:you'll you'll love a joke that my father used to tell.
Speaker:He would say, yeah, getting old is not great, but it beats
Speaker:the alternative. Meet the alternative. That's right.
Speaker:It's only one other alternative. That's right. That's right.
Speaker:So we have a question here. What do you think hit, your dad's take would
Speaker:be on social media and all the good and the bad that comes with
Speaker:that? Right. Well, that's the the last part of that question that hits the nail
Speaker:on the head. Good and bad. I think he would see the good and the
Speaker:bad. I mean, social media when you really think about it is incredibly
Speaker:paradoxical, right, or ironic because we
Speaker:are so connected now to
Speaker:anybody in the world. I, one of my best friends who, became
Speaker:a very good friend of mine. When we both lived in Japan, we actually ran
Speaker:company together. He is an Instagram influencer. He
Speaker:travels around the world, and I am in constant touch with
Speaker:him. you know, more than daily touch with him,
Speaker:via one of the text apps, you know, and he's constantly
Speaker:in Dubai or Egypt or
Speaker:the South Pacific. I think currently he's in India, you
Speaker:know, so we're in we can be in incredibly connected to
Speaker:people through social media, yet the
Speaker:overall effect of it is to make us much more isolated.
Speaker:from people than we were before. We're constantly staring at our
Speaker:phones. We're not focused on what's in right in front of us. We don't
Speaker:relate to the people around us we don't stop and have
Speaker:random conversations with people the way we used to because
Speaker:we're just like looking at our phone, you know, and
Speaker:not aware of what's around us. so
Speaker:it's a paradox. And my father would say it's great to be
Speaker:more connected but maybe sometime be
Speaker:aware of your surroundings, maybe interact with the people in
Speaker:your immediate surroundings. I have to say it's something that I
Speaker:do. And, you know, some people, lots of people
Speaker:relate to it well. Some people don't. but I'll strike up random
Speaker:conversations with people around me just because I love
Speaker:to talk to people, you know, and I know what they're about. and
Speaker:some people are receptive and some people are not. And that's fine. But
Speaker:to answer the question, I think he would be critical of people
Speaker:were constantly focused on their phone. It's fine to do that
Speaker:sometimes and it's wonderful to be in touch with people all around the world but
Speaker:also focus on your immediate surroundings, the people
Speaker:around you, and maybe try and make a connection with them. I I love
Speaker:that. And I do the same thing, Rob. I talk to people in the grocery
Speaker:store, and I stop. I can believe that. Having talked to you
Speaker:a few times. I know Robin are your
Speaker:best buddies now. so here's another great
Speaker:question, though, because you lived this. Okay? So what
Speaker:advice might you offer to children of aging parents
Speaker:when they're ill? How to be best supportive
Speaker:and and offer them support and encouragement.
Speaker:Right. This is a complex question, actually. So I'm gonna approach
Speaker:it from two different ways. So the
Speaker:first way is, obviously, you wanna be as
Speaker:supportive as you as you can but you need to be
Speaker:supportive in the way that they want you to be
Speaker:supportive. You need to talk to them and say, what can
Speaker:I do? What should I not do? What makes you
Speaker:uncomfortable? And maybe some people will be
Speaker:uncomfortable with attention being showered on them or
Speaker:somebody doting on them or, you know, always
Speaker:hovering over them. Are you okay? you know, can I do something for you? A
Speaker:lot of people are not comfortable with that. So you need to talk to them
Speaker:and find out what they're comfortable with and find the ways
Speaker:that you can help them and support them in ways that fit
Speaker:that they're comfortable with. So that's the first part of the answer. The second
Speaker:part of the answer is a more personal one, but I also think it works
Speaker:for everybody, maybe on different levels, which is that when an
Speaker:aging parent is ill, you have to realize that
Speaker:they're probably not gonna be around. They're certainly not gonna be around forever,
Speaker:and they're probably not gonna be around for that much longer. So you
Speaker:really have to make the time to, you know, relate to
Speaker:them, talk to them, figure out ways to share. Some people
Speaker:are not as verbal as other people figure out ways to share things.
Speaker:And, again, you have to be strategic about it. You can't
Speaker:impose what you want. on the person. You have to find
Speaker:the meeting point where it's comfortable for both of you. And
Speaker:a side note on something that I did that
Speaker:is been incredibly, like, meaningful to me.
Speaker:And maybe in the future will be to other people is
Speaker:that for my father and, of course, my dad was incredibly
Speaker:verbal and he was meeting all sorts of people and you know,
Speaker:that's captured in Tuesdays with Maury. He was having discussion groups and he was
Speaker:having friends over. So I set up a video camera.
Speaker:in his study. And I have hours and hours of
Speaker:videotape of him, just, you know, random
Speaker:days where he was talking to people And of
Speaker:course, you know, he was already ill. So we knew that he wasn't gonna be
Speaker:around forever, but just watching the videotape you know,
Speaker:makes me feel so close to him. Now not maybe
Speaker:not everybody will be comfortable with a video camera being set up, but you can
Speaker:ask you can find out. And,
Speaker:you know, it's been incredibly valuable. I should note that I
Speaker:actually shared those tape with Mitch and some of Tuesdays with Maury
Speaker:is based on the videotape that I shot
Speaker:that Mitch incorporated into the book. So, you know, it's paid
Speaker:dividends thousands of times over in terms of, you know,
Speaker:emotional impact for me and also for people in the
Speaker:world, which is an incredible thing. And that's all thanks to the glitch. Yeah.
Speaker:That's beautiful. The wisdom of Rob. Oh, wow.
Speaker:So the wisdom of Maury is the book that Maury Schwartz
Speaker:wrote before he got ALS before Mitch
Speaker:albums Tuesdays with Maury. And Rob
Speaker:has given us this gift by editing this book and
Speaker:and making it possible for all of us to learn from Maury,
Speaker:which is truly I'm so grateful that you did
Speaker:this, Rob, and that you came on the show. I just wanna ask if
Speaker:there's like 1 or 2 takeaways.
Speaker:It's hard because there's so much in this book, but there's 1 or 2 takeaways
Speaker:that you feel like are the most impactful that you wanna leave with our audience
Speaker:today. Right. Alright. So as we mentioned
Speaker:earlier, my father says lots of techniques. He offers lots of
Speaker:specific techniques to try and maybe make your life more
Speaker:vibrant or more creative. And, of course, some of them will
Speaker:speak to you and some of them won't. So I may say ones and it'd
Speaker:be meaningless to you or it may be meaningful, but my father
Speaker:fundamentally felt what gives your life
Speaker:meaning is your relationship with other people. You know, he said
Speaker:many times, like, at the end of your life, when you're on your deathbed,
Speaker:the size of your bank account is not gonna matter at all,
Speaker:but the times that you shared with the people who are meaningful
Speaker:for you is gonna be extremely important. So,
Speaker:obviously, share as much as you can with the
Speaker:people who are most meaningful for you And the
Speaker:extension of that is that you
Speaker:can create new relationships. You can go out and meet new people
Speaker:assuming, you know, You're relatively healthy in your aging state.
Speaker:You have time. You can and this is hard for a lot of people or
Speaker:not comfortable for a lot of people to reach out and talk to people. They
Speaker:don't know. But one way to achieve that, and my father talks
Speaker:about this in the book is to figure out what you're interested
Speaker:in and pursue that interest. And then you can meet
Speaker:other people who are interested in the same thing, and that's an easy
Speaker:way to connect with people and form new relationships about
Speaker:your shared interest. And then, of course, it can take off from there where
Speaker:you learn more about each other and hopefully end up, you know,
Speaker:caring about each other. Right. Rob, thank you
Speaker:so much. let me tell people how they can
Speaker:find out more There is a website, wisdomofmori.com
Speaker:that you can check out and find out more. And Rob also
Speaker:graciously Lee is sharing his email address with us, which
Speaker:is gangamati@yahoo.com.
Speaker:And just as a little aside, if you have a little independent bookstore
Speaker:near you that you think would be a good place for Rob to come speak,
Speaker:drop him an email and let him know about that. Absolutely. Can I add one
Speaker:thing? usually, I hope people read the book and
Speaker:enjoy the book. and get something from it. And if you do that,
Speaker:it would really appreciate it if you leave a review
Speaker:on Amazon, or on good reads
Speaker:or on Barnes And Noble's or any site. Those are probably
Speaker:the 3 that popped to mind, especially Amazon, but it's so
Speaker:important to get reviews out there to let people
Speaker:know what's going on because as you mentioned, social media is
Speaker:such a huge part of our life. And as you well know, what drives social
Speaker:media algorithms? And how do the algorithms work? the more
Speaker:there is, the more there is. That's the way algorithms
Speaker:work. The larger it is already, the bigger the more people it
Speaker:exposes it to. So -- Right. -- are really, really
Speaker:important. And I'm gonna follow on to that about reviews to
Speaker:say that if you like what you're hearing on, hey, Boomer, I wanna hear from
Speaker:you too. So I would love for you to leave
Speaker:reviews on Apple or Spotify or drop me an email.
Speaker:atwendy@heyboomer.biz. And I just wanna share
Speaker:this message I got from Josephine a couple of weeks ago. And
Speaker:she said, I loved hearing Philip Martin with his
Speaker:enthusiasm and wonderful view of life and lessons learned from
Speaker:his dogs. I think what he is doing and has done is
Speaker:so inspiring Philip is right that kids are more
Speaker:ease will more easily learn from pet than from an adult.
Speaker:Thanks, Josephine, for what you, took the time to
Speaker:share with me. I really do appreciate hearing that what
Speaker:we're doing on this Hey Boomer show makes a difference to you.
Speaker:I also wanted to say that I created a listener survey
Speaker:because again, I wanna hear what you're saying and what you're thinking.
Speaker:I'm gonna post this in the show notes I'm
Speaker:also you can see the link here, but I will post it,
Speaker:on the website so that you can give me your
Speaker:feedback and to incentivize you.
Speaker:gonna do a random drawing, of
Speaker:everybody who participates in the survey. I'm gonna do a random drawing for
Speaker:$50 Amazon gift cards. So you can use that to buy the
Speaker:wisdom of Maury. Yay.
Speaker:next Monday. Next Monday, I will have landed in Denver,
Speaker:Colorado, and I'll be getting immersed in all things podcast.
Speaker:because I will be at the podcast Movement Convention, which is
Speaker:the largest podcast convention in the United States.
Speaker:I'm I'm excited and nervous. I am signed up to record
Speaker:a podcast there. So I will be releasing
Speaker:that, but that's be cool because it's gonna be like a real studio
Speaker:with real editors and all of that. so I'll
Speaker:release that when I get back, but, you know, there's an extensive
Speaker:catalog of Hey Boomer shows that you can watch
Speaker:while I am not on the air for the next 2 weeks.
Speaker:and I'd like to leave you with the belief that we can
Speaker:all live with courage, live with relevance,
Speaker:and live with curiosity. And remember that we are
Speaker:never too old to set another goal or dream a
Speaker:new dream. Thanks again, Rob. Thank you.
